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Thrill a Minute Thursday

We could go anywhere today!

Personal income is up .4%, personal spending is up .2% but people aren’t spending it at Wal-Mart, who gave us some pretty lame numbers along with several other big retailers.

Very tight stops on calls today as any indication of consumer weakness can really spook the markets.

Asia had another great day with both the Nikkei and the Hang Seng adding on a point.  India’s GDP came in at 9.2%, well over expectations of 8.9% - this is another billion person economy that is kicking our butts!

Also kicking our economic booty is our old owners, England!  It now costs you almost $2 to buy a British pound (England still uses their own currency extensively), which is up from $1.40 on my last trip just 2 years ago!

Another reason Europe is flying is that it looks unlikely that Turkey will join the EU and drag them down in the near future.  Much like the integration of East Germany was very painful, Turkey just does not have their economic house in good enough order to join the team.

Let’s check our levels very carefully:

  • Dow MUST hold 12,200 and needs 12,300 to be taken seriously
    • Transports can NOT go below 2,650
  • S&P MUST break and hold 1,400
  • NYSE MUST hold 8,900 but needs 9,000 to impress
  • Nasdaq needs to get back over 2,450 fast!
    • SOX MUST retake 480 and 490 is no big deal 

Oil is going to test $63 at the open and yesterday’s move was independent of the dollar so we should be very, very afraid if it goes up from here ($62.50).  This contract was at $63.09 back on 11/10, when we were still looking at the December contract, and it fell back $6 from that peak a week later so that’s the new high they will be looking to break.

Gold will test $650 today if our markets look weak and NEM is always a good way to play this with the $47.50s just .45 but don’t be greedy! 

If the dollar goes below 83, we are in BIG TROUBLE so I really have no desire to do anything other than manage my existing positions and wind down my month, something I’m sure many fund managers will be doing today as well!

=================================== 

It’s time to put our money in foreign banks before ours start to fail!  MTU is my favorite and has been beaten down of late and I like the Jan $’08 $10s for $2.80 as a very low premium play or you can just buy the stock for $12.49 and save the 30 cents!

Let’s be real careful out there today – any downturn could gather momentum very quickly as foreign traders need little excuse to start dumping our markets.

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Comments


  1. just shiv

    Anyone shorting oil today?

    tempted to considering the run they had but one never knows

    Best time of day to short?

    looking at xom, xle, mro, vlo

    thoughts?

  2. just shiv

    AAPL moved up last coupla days only to deceive. Hat trick today ? or will it break away?

  3. JB

    RMBS being used in PS3. Rmbs trading up

  4. JB

    Retail in play- WMT wars about flat xmas sales-puts anyone?

  5. JB

    MSFT DEC 30′s at .15/.25

    placing frugal bid for .15

  6. turbo

    Hi Phils,
    I think that you start to have a “Cramer” affect, MTU is up almost 2% already.

  7. Jacox Boy

    From Briefing:
    Energy sector was on fire Wednesday as the OIH broke above its 200-day sma resistance and the XLE shot up to challenge its 2006 highs. Next level to watch on the OIH is the 150 zone around its summer highs and the 62% retracement off the 2006 high. Take note the OIH is already 7 days into this current rally so watch for extended upside or a gap up to present a counter-trend Shorting op.

    JB

  8. JB

    Phil- your thoughts on TOPT BIG selloff Jan 5′s?

  9. i2trade

    Tom2oc, If you are reading this, on OIH you’ll see the volume has been moving down as the price accelerated in 3 month chart, per your TA
    is there any strength in this move? ( i see it is breaking resistances now)

    your thoughts on this please?

    thanks

  10. JB

    wow the spy dropped hard. may pick up some 140′s here

  11. Jim R.

    Phile,

    Re your MOT comment on yesterday’s wrap up:

    ” . . . MOT is a play we make monthly (in addition to our leap) as it will suddenly hit one and we’ll be sorry we missed it.”

    I think I would like to hold MOT, may I ask your leap suggestion ?
    Tx, JR

  12. rozany

    gotta be mindful of end-of-month/beginning-of-month “window dressing.”

    and end-of-year tax-loss selling. I would think some of the year’s biggest losers would be good candidates for puts, obviously. Phil, any ideas there?

  13. rockaintdeadyet

    The dollar isn’t doing itself any favors today, and coupled with the SSS reports I think someone got a little scared. The leadership sectors are looking very shaky. Right now I’m looking for short entries in the brokers and high-beta (IWM, tech). Unless GS and CSCO make a move up I like the short side.
    Of course it bears repeating that the shorts are practically psychiatric patients by now due to the number of times they’ve been ratf**cked…

  14. Ray

    DOW is under 12,200. Uh oh.

  15. just shiv

    Check out the short Interest in OVTI
    I f the ER is good and the shorts have to cover . it could be interesting.

  16. JB

    All these orders for Boeing explain the rise in TIE, RTI ATI. Phil do you think these guys have more room to rise? I would think so

  17. Anonymous

    VLO XOM spiking on data

  18. MJ

    U.S. natural gas supply down 32 bln cubic feet: Energy Dept.

  19. just shiv

    Got out of the xle pUTS can’t beat them

    Too risky to join

  20. Soccer_F1

    Crude @ 63 — XOM up to $76.7 — wow!

  21. KUSTOMZ

    Soccer……Cramer says XOM 100 before JAN!!

  22. Don

    jumped on the BTU Jan 50′s at $1.20…nat. gas supplies down…let’s see what happens…

    oil sector looking strong

  23. tom2oc

    I2trade, For OIH look at the TA on my blog for the major breakout that occured yesterday. The reaction to today’s inventories so far is not negating that event. Then look at the crude chart in prior posts and you’ll see that there was a bull flag in the chart just below resistance. I was hoping for a pb in OIH to get long but might not get it. Already in long oil though so I’m happy. I posted about OIH being in a bullish chart for weeks and months. Forget all FA talk on oil and follow the money. But could go both ways… do you own DD and talk to your financial advisors… etc.

    G/L

  24. tom2oc

    Hey Kustomz, if SHLD closes below 50MA you’ll owe me another double cheese! :) What a POS looking chart! Got to sit my hands again not to short the hell out of it. Wonder why the folks you mentioned were so bullish on that dog. G/L

  25. D

    Oil – you are correct. I will no longer swim against the tide, a rule I made for myself and have broken too often recently.

  26. i2trade

    Thanks, Tom.

  27. phil

    MSFT – in your dreams JB!

    ===============================

    I’m standing pat on my oil puts – oil companies not even responding to another bump in price. They are waiting to see if they can get a new high ($63.10) and hold it.

    ===============================

    RMBS – maybe that’s the part that doesn’t work? P/E of 74, not something I would chase.

    ===============================

    MTU – holy cow! Someone did 60K shares at the bell – not the way to work into a posiiton…

    ===============================

    TOPT – Z hit this on the nose, that whole sector is getting hammered and will continue to do so if the price of oil is being driven by production cutbacks.

    ================================

    MOT – the Jan ’08 $22.50s are not far from where we first bought them at $2.80 (we were in at $2.65, stopped out at $3.1 last week and got back in at $2.65 on Tuesday).

    ================================

    Biggest losers – it’s a good idea for December, conversely you would think people will try to hold big winners (like XOM – kick, kick) to turn major profits into capital gains.

    It will be interesting to see how long-term confident holders of Google are.

  28. tom2oc

    Phil, so is this the last day before you turn pro?

  29. navi

    VLO down turn. Time to short xom??

    Tom blogging again is a good thing!

  30. JD

    Oils play, agreed with Cramer on 100 target for XOM, It ‘s a great company.We need get out the oil puts and go on with our trading life. Phil’s advise us into this oil put mess, now we need you give us some other plays to get us back on our feet.

  31. arnie

    profs are u there?
    Your thoughts on DHI BZH puts?
    Am still holding mine and thinking of adding more
    My issue I have DHI dec 25 puts (BZH in Jan) and afraid I’ll run out of time

  32. Slackin

    Las Vegas Sands (LVS 91.80) President sold 300K shares at $91.05-94.27… Titanium Metals (TIE 31.00) Director sold 10K shares at $30.92

  33. phil

    OVTI – that’s a strange one. Perhaps there are fears that the pricing pressure is getting to them but I’ve heard them mentioned as possible takeover targets too.

    It’s a risky play but one I like with the Mar $17.50s at $1.70.

    ========================================

    Boeing Buddies – well I covered my TIEs because I thought that was plenty for now but I would still love any of those guys on a pullback

    ========================================

    I took a second round of XOM $75 puts at .55 but that’s it for now

    Tom is right though, it’s a crazy play based on FA logic but not based on what the market is actually doing.

    I’ve made the mistake of looking at XOM as a company rather than XOM as a blue chip, dividend paying investment with a strong global presence that acts as a safety net for worried investors. Add to that the fact that it’s way up for the year and perhaps that low turnover rate means the roaches are happy in their little hotels for now and it may be a long time before it all hits the fan in there.

    ===============================

    I may go long on some oils over $63.10 but no way until they show me that money.

    Yesterday’s inventory was a sucker’s rally and someone with money is bound to figure this out (although I can’t believe it takes this long).

  34. phil

    Last Day – apparently not! Still working out a few things that may or may not be resolved on the weekend but we are closing pre-register either way.

    ================================

    JD – my advice is cash and patience… Never try to force an opportunity or you won’t be ready when a real one presents itself.

  35. phil

    Well NEM was fun while it lasted but I have little confidence if they cant get over $47 soon so I’ll take it as a day trade…

  36. Dan E

    i agree, blogging again is a good thing Tom. :)

    2 thoughts as a long time follower. Maybe you up the intiial fee and go with a smaller audience. i’m game for anything up to $100 although i think anything over $50 will limit your future audience dramatically. when you grow the site you bring down your fee..you’ve struck me as a real honest type so shouldn’t be a problem. i know i’ll just bag my telechart subscription and donate the money to you and let you do the scans. just kidding

    the other thought is that you continue on for free a bit longer. you might have jumped the gun on going pro because so many people in your reader base might have just dicovered your site a few months ago. might take a few more months to bring them along.

    loving the RRC trade although i must confess that i’m short OIH right now on a weak opening price signal. will be covering before the crooks get their hands on it at noon.

    Dan

  37. just shiv

    UNcanny mkt -

    IT goes down when I just sell my PUTS

    or when I sell my calls since they are not going anywhere they go up

    How do they know that?

  38. Slackin

    Cramer sez that XOM is being bought up by large funds so they can show some oil exposure by year’s end. If that is true, can someone please tell this newbie why XOM and OIH track as if they were the same stock?

  39. phil

    Who was it who talked me out of DIA puts by saying that $63 oil wouldn’t kill the Dow???? Tommmmmm…..

    My fault for being so wishy washy about it!
    8-)

  40. Alex1

    Phil,

    Sorry if this has been covered already, but is there a way to find out whether I preregistered successfully? Thanks.

  41. kustomz

    WHOA..TOM! how did we go from cheeseburger to DOUBLE cheeseburger? Nice try sneaking in that DOUBLE i see Phil’s been more of an influence than i had previously suspected.

    TOM i suspect there are many that are thinking the same, another test of 172 without a breakout would probably confirm your short anything below 169 and its a long way down to 160.

    TXN now what to do with that? Still holding a small position long had thoughts of adding on today’s drop but couldn’t find the courage to pull the trigger. Not much short interest in TXN thinking longs feel its too cheap here.

    The market wants to run, you can see it on every pull back. Think smart money stopped buying long time ago.

    SNDK good play for a dead cat bounce. WOULD NOT HOLD IT LONGER THAN A QUICK TRADE!

  42. JD

    Phil,
    sorry to stand up and tell the true about your oil puts, hope you get a lot of followers on your new private site. I am rather pay for realmoney.com at least their percentage winners is much better than here.

  43. tom2oc

    AQNT weird action today. There was a big purchase at 9:55 despite the daily being bearish for so long. Smelling a TA character change in progress here I had to get long in case it’s confirmed by EOD . Anyone knows something on it? Tx

  44. i2trade

    just shiv, we are in the same boat, too pathetic when that happens. I learnt not to be trigger happy. Patience and discipline is the only way to do & learn this game. No matter how seasoned trader one is.

    Phil, no word on the pricing yet (?) hope you dont shock us like the market :) Hope you & Tom put one together.

  45. sakiko

    shiv, maybe they have a tie-in to Surveillance (and await YOUR move), LOL. I feel that way once in a while.

    Maybe you could lighten up a bit and join the TA people for a while… they’re not getting a double every day, but Tom2oc is certainly putting points on the board. You could be subscriber # 39 !

  46. John, the Other One

    Well, I’m glad you’re “game” for $100 a month! I’m more game for $20 or so a month! Even that’d knock out about 90% of the readers from a subscribing, and they’d go with the free section.

  47. cap

    sold my oih and xle puts profitably. also was short BHI; covered. May look to reload.

  48. just shiv

    sakiko – I wouldn’t mind joining the TA people & was never against it. Hopefully it will happen before I run out of all money playing options

    Stupid mkt hope it jumps up & goes +200 pts for a change

  49. phil

    Cramer is right to a point but I don’t think anyone is prepared for what will happen if we tank the markets over here.

    There has not been a time in recent history when the US economy exerted a drag on the global economy. Think of a car with two giant rear tires (US $12T, Entire EU combined $12T) that is 50% bigger than the front tires (China $8T, Japan and the rest of Asia $8T) carrying around the rest of the world’s $20T ($60T total).

    Now we’ve had a flat in Japan, and look what that did! Imagine a blow-out in the US or Europe or losing China. Now imagine you’re driving this car and you realize that China and Japan really can’t function without a strong US?

    Like any good pit crew, overseas traders are looking for any sign of trouble in the US but they know damn well that they can’t keep going without it so the only logical solution is to bail on everything at the first major sign of trouble or face a very bad crash!

  50. just shiv

    AAPl – is hovering around without breaking out – The only thing I see is the option time value causing degradation in Calls & puts

  51. Daniel

    Phil,
    I pre-registered last week, but have gotten nothing back in response. Please don’t leave me out in the frigid cold of ignorance and despair.
    Pre-register again? If so, where?
    Daniel
    BTW, all my gold/silver/uranium stocks are doing fine. Finally.

  52. John, the Other One

    Looks like Cramer’s oil pump failed.

  53. just shiv

    Damn losing money hurts in more than 1 way

    forget abt the losses, long term plans get affected.

    I was planning to retie young & relax at home trading

    Looks like I will grow very very very old before it happens

  54. kustomz

    Seeing that or debt has increased substantially i would say we are the main reason for China’s growth, whats our contribution to India’s GDP.

    I would be out of SNDK 44.40-- 44.60.

  55. phil

    Alex – not that I know of but it’s not like we’re some evil conglomerate – any problems will be addressed if someone gets missed.

    =================================

    A LOT of pressure building on OIH to the downside – I have to take the $140s for $1.70 but I will give up the second oil breaks $63.10, even if it is bs pumping

  56. ramana

    LOL shiv

  57. tom2oc

    Kustomz! LOL! You must have misread my reply to you yesterday when I upgraded it to a double cheese!

    Phil, first I said $62 oil wouldn’t kill the Dow as per your premarket commentary of yesterday, not 63. Second, even 63 will not kill the Dow! And raise this 65 if you wish, no problem. Third, I thought you had a longer horizon than daytrade, sorry, but still 60 points down after yesterday’s run is not what I call killing the Dow.

    Dow needs strong oil. Heck been making a killing for 3 years on strong oil.

    Careful with those oil puts Phil, as long as the market goes up, people will continue to pour money into the energy sector because like said yesterday, they are addicted not to oil but to oil stocks. Oil patch IS the market so if you’re bullish on the market, you’re bullish on the energy sector (but if you’re bearish on the market then fine to be bearish on energy). Same bloody thing as the homebuilders sector that blew up in August of ’05. But we’re talking much more $$$ here with the energy. This will go on until the market finally corrects after this 3 1/2 years old oil induced bull market. And you’re aware that TA tells me that the best odds is for this to happen before July of next year. Whenever this happens, then it will be time to load up on oil puts but until then I remain bullish on oil and the market. I’m waiting for a normal FIB pullback after that big energy run up in November to add to oil plays. G/L

  58. bullnotbear

    High risk = only small poss of high returns and large poss of high losses since 90% of day traders lose money. If huge hedge funds can go belly up and they are supposedly the pros, you gotta understand your in a tough league! All this from a neophyte so consider the source lol

  59. rozany

    just shiv,

    not as uncanny as you think – “they” KNOW what everybody has. they try to stop out as many people as possible, up or down.

  60. harvey

    Phil,

    What’s your downside target in FCX?

  61. Scooter

    What are your takes on SBUX?
    I was hoping for a bounce back, but its still trending down, now trading at 35.29.
    How low do you think it will go before it heads back up?

  62. mulsannetrd

    regarding pre -registration….have not rec’d anything at all since I signed up about two weeks ago. Second, in order to price a subscription to the site there are a few questions that I would have before sending any of my $$$ anyone’s way for advice:

    what size of port. are you working with?

    what are the actual # of cont. you purchase in any given options at a time?
    (I may be missing that as I’ve not looked any farther than the front-end and the comments section)

    This is an very long question but what sort of premium services are you offering that is different than say the chartman at TSC (which is a joke BTW) will you be doing scans, having time during off-market hours to discuss? Take requests so to speak?

    I guess what I’m getting at is that most of us here know very little of what you intend to offer other than a price per month that was sort of half-handedly thrown out to us.

    We need a little more “meat” so that we don’t just get a “hey I’m pro now so sign up”….

  63. The Jack of Hearts

    Phil/The Masses,
    Any opinions on China Mobile’s (CHL) recent pullback, a buying opportuinity perhaps? I’ve looked at some of their figures and, frankly, they look incredible. To my eyes there’s still a lot of value in the price.
    JoH.

  64. kustomz

    SOX coming to the rescue?

  65. tom2oc

    Dan, just saw your note. Thanks for the offer but not going back to blogging. Money has been too good this week after all that free time I now have to research and find the hidden gems. Just enjoying the last few days on Phil’s site. Heck, I’ve been reading and commenting on his site almost since day 1. A little nostalgia before the site is shut down.

    Careful on these OIH!! There was a big breakout for a large bullish falling wedge in October and this stock will be under the influence of it for many months to come. Been bullish on it for months and for me it’s a buy the dips affair. Unless proven otherwise by a TA reversal event, this OIH is going way way up, probably to all time high in coming months. Only thing to do is to see those TA character change when they happen but until proven otherwise, it’s Newton’s law! The stock will continue to trend until something stops resulting in a TA character change. Reason why the old mantra: the trend is your friend… G/L

  66. Alex1

    Phil,

    Thanks for replying; I registered again just in case.

  67. Jerry

    Well this is a twofer but it feels like a threefer. Day in day out, reading every comment becoming a massive fan of the Philster and the Tomahawk and then boom crash bang wallop! Tom is gone, taken away from us from the same deadly and accurate missile we were hoping to ride for his own gains….and Philster goes private with the validation of the Wall Street Journal……and for the little guy…..well the hope is gone……this is Jerry signing off…..*thoroughly depressed* — will try to scout you out Tomahawk with my radar — until then fellow fantasticos….siyonara, over and out.

    adios & ciao.

  68. D

    Alex, where did you find the link to register again, what day was it posted?

    Thanks

  69. just shiv

    irrespective of a paid site or not, Phil should still run something here. His articles are interesting, insight good & we would all benefit from it.

    Tom should continue to monitor & advise with his TA Logic

    Everyone could vent, have fun (depending on how things are) and share stuff too

  70. phil

    Daniel, I’m not supposed to post this anymore but: http://www.jotform.com/form/63203852512

    The registration seems fine though, we just didn’t set up a confirmation (ok silly of us) but don’t worry, I know you’re a regular!

    ================================

    Shiv – that is one thing I do pledge to get much more into once we have a smaller group – income producing plays! Lots of good old buy the leaps and sell the call/puts to make a steady income from which we can take a small portion and gamble with!

    I wrote something up on that a while ago.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/18043

    We took SHLD Jan ’08 $145s at $39.60 (now $42.20 even if you didn’t take it off the table $10 ago)

    IBM Jan ’09 $70s were picked up for $20.50 (now $27.60) and selling the calls was VERY productive on that trade as it flattened out

    DNA Jan ’08 $70s were $21 and are now $18.50 but we sold the Nov $85s for $2.85 and kept it and are ready to sell the Decembers on any weakness.

    NYT Jan ’08 $22.50s were $3.10 (now $3.60) and we sold the Jan $22.50s for $1.50 but it looks like we will get called away from that one.

    INTC Jan ’08 $17.50s were picked up for $4.70 (now $5.10) and we sold the Jan $20s for $1.70, which I bought out back on the 6th but, even if you left it alone, you’re still in decent shape!

    As I often say (but no one seems to hear) 80% of your portfolio should be in stuff you almost never have to look at, this short-term stuff should be for fun…

    It’s not as sexy as our quick plays but it sure pays the bills!

  71. Soccer_F1

    I’ve taken huge losses on XOM puts as well.

    I’ll be on the sidelines for a while as well.

  72. rozany

    Phil,

    I’m not as smart as you (or Tom, or any of the rest of you)(I’ve always had to work for a living) but could you explain to me why, if the government wants/needs the market to keep going up to keep foreigners interested, why the Big Boys would try to stop us little guys out every chance they get? even if we are long as well, going along with it?

    seems counter-productive to me, turning off the “retail” investor which they say they need so much.

    ————————

    going pro will make you more of a target for the Big Boys to go against you. your subscribers will suffer for it. you know “they” troll the blogs?

    don’t get me wrong, I value your insights. I just think you are setting yourself up for failure (?). you say that you are an “amateur.” how many pros don’t do that well? look at Cramer’s track record.

  73. Ravs

    Phil, how do I pre register? Sorry to repeat the question, but I didn’t see a answer posted.

  74. kustomz

    SNDK was a nice quick trade.Would not risk it going into the afternoon. Sox has been taking it on the chin last 2 days.

    Almost bought INTC story out RACK using more INTC chips. Doesn’t need much of a push to get back to 22.
    At this point would rather have the strenght to buy into futher weakness.
    NASDAQ has been a lager, think its a safe bet.

  75. phil

    Tom, just kidding (although I did mix up the $62/63) but it was for a daytrade as I thought the Dow would short-term top on oil pressure. This is some house of cards this market is building on!

    ===============================

    FCX – I’m not playing it down. My current play is for PD to stay where it is and keep selling puts against it.

    =================================

    SBUX – remind me to look at this over the weekend, they are a very complicated company to time.

    ================================

    Muls – sorry will not be too much different than what I do now at first only I won’t be doing this for free anymore.

    Less people will mean I can take a lot more requests and go into detail but I’m not going to start obligating myself in any way to do that. It’s going to be more like signing up for premium content on the Street.com or Fool.com – I’m not a broker and I don’t make trades for you although I will establish a sample account with a $10-20K balance for people to follow.

    ================================

    CHL totally great company but China is a total widcard and I’d rather buy them on a big pullback than up here.

    =============================

    Shiv – I have the same problem as Tom does, my time has a value and my own trading is taking a backseat to the blog – I’m actually aiming to have enough subscribers to quit day trading my own stuff and concentrate only on the things we talk about.

    As I mentioned above and in the recent article on long-term trades, I just do not have time in the day to discuss those plays, which make fantastic amounts of money and pay for all this silly stuff, in addition to the daily picks.

    I’ve had this problem for a while as the blog has just taken on a life of its own but luckily I have enough people to do the reverse of what Dan suggested for Tom, which is charge my original crew less and then charge a lot for latecomers.

    If the cost of comission on a single trade is too much to pay for the advice, then the advice isn’t worth it, but don’t tell me that either Tom or I don’t work harder for you than your broker…

  76. bullnotbear

    OIH Dec 145s moving nicely…..any thoughts on whether is just a ST pump?

  77. Alex1

    D,

    The registration link was posted on 11/20. It’s http://www.jotform.com/form/63203852512

  78. Ilene2

    I really enjoy your blog and make an effort to read your blog every day. I must be honest in saying that you have done a good job on FA . now you are going private, I will miss your blog , as a student learning to invest , I will not able to pay . Good luck with your private blog .

  79. MSM007

    Phil, I pre registered a few weeks ago and wondering if you plan to ping me with confirmation/instructions ? Looking forward to your new site. Thanks.

  80. phil

    I thought I posted this already but the sign-up is: http://www.jotform.com/form/63203852512

    If it’s already closed then just wait for the weekend as I’m sure no everyone who registered will actually subscribe and Jared will put something together over the weekend (or that’s the plan!).

    =================================

    Roz, it’s like a casino – you have to win sometimes a lot (see my XOM example yesterday) but usually lose a little. The house is playing for the percentages but the game is rigged so they can go in for a kill almost at will.

    Without good cash management, all the good picks in the world won’t save you. Again, this is something I think is vitally important to address but there is no way I can get into a discussion of this magnitude on a public site – it’s almost a book by itself!

    I hope you’re wrong about trolling but right now everyone gets all of our picks for free and I have been getting shut out of so many of my own plays lately it’s just annoying.

    =================================

    Well I took those OIH’s on that pump and I didn’t sell my XOMs yet even though I should but I have to leave today and I’m going to let it ride and take my lumps tomorrow if I’m wrong but SU doesn’t believe this rally and neither do I.

    ===================================

    Later all – remember that critical $60.10 mark for oil and also that anything under 12,200 is bad!

  81. tom2oc

    NYSE trying to breakout again. Watch 8961 now 8952. AAPL and GOOG positive and BKX finally showing signs of turning. If this holds, we might reverse green.

    Phil, if that Dow ever turns green on 63 oil, you send me a triple cheeseburger! LOL!

  82. kustomz

    TXN on fire anything over 29.80 and we are off to the races.

  83. phil

    Dollar broke below 83!

  84. kustomz

    This is unreal……Susquehanna Financial notes their recent checks suggest that several North American IDMs have started to sharply reduce wafer starts. This is unsurprising given firm’s analysis of industry fundamentals, which suggests that IC unit production is likely to dip from current above-trend levels to more normalized levels over the next several months. They see these as caution signals for semiconductor stocks generally, and continue to see at least 10-15% downside risk to the SOX.

    Only two semi industry downturns in the last 30 years have been driven by a drop in demand (defined as multi-quarter negative IC unit growth). However, after more than a year above trendline, we are almost certain to see at least a dip in unit production over the next several quarters. In a worst-case scenario, we could see a drop significantly below the long-term trendline – the last time this happened was in 2001, after IC units had spent the prior 20 months above trendline. IC units have been above trendline for 14 months.

    While the firm remains impressed with Texas Instrument’s (NYSE:TXN) execution and strong product cycles in 3G and high-performance analog, their checks suggest that the chipmaker is cutting wafer starts at its internal manufacturing facilities, as well as with foundry partners due to worse than anticipated demand from at least one major handset customer, as well as generally slowing analog unit growth. Firm would not be surprised if management takes F4Q06 (December) guidance to the low end of the previous range ($3.46 bln-$3.75 bln/$0.40-$0.47) during the mid-quarter update on December 11.Recommends that investors consider getting more constructive if valuation dips below 16x P/E NTM – the stock currently trades at 17.2x CY07 EPS estimate of $1.70. Negative Factor

    Firm is also cautious on AMD (NYSE:AMD).

  85. 1st ztr addict

    So, you are saying off to the races down?

  86. navi

    “If the cost of commission on a single trade is too much to pay for the advice, then the advice isn’t worth it, but don’t tell me that either Tom or I don’t work harder for you than your broker…”

    Well stated!

    If you trade 5 times a month on random data, it may be worth while to trade 4 times a month, with focused data. But, I would conjecture that those who spend the time refreshing this blog and scrolling all the way down to read the latest comments (don’t you just hate that!) trade way more than 5 times a month. So that just reduces your cost basis even more.

  87. Shane

    Tom2oc,
    I think you will get that triple cheeseburger.
    Cheer,

  88. 1st ztr addict

    navi, when you click on comments for a particular day, right mouse click and hit “open in new window” Then when you refresh it goes right where you left off. No need to scroll down. It “catches” on occasion, but works >90% of the time.

  89. mulsannetrd

    so now there pumping the SOX while saying that inventory is a concern..

    dumb question of the day: How do you grow an industry that still can’t work off it’s own inventory? Sounds alot like the housing market….

    It has disconnected from reality. The SOX is the laggard…if that gets rallied with it cutting starts and generally having too much inventory(cough, oil, cough) then I truly am going away until this madness ceases.

    M

  90. Prof

    arnie,

    WOW this is just brutal with the homebuilders!

    The market is sooo irrational, and believe me, I’m trying to stay solvent.

    I wish I would have covered and closed out my positions at the beginning of Nov, when I was back in the positive for a brief period.

    Very painful lesson being learned:

    NEVER EVER short a bull market, especially near its end!!!

    Well it could be worse – that moron “real estate investor” Casey “iamfacingforeclosure.com” Serin was on CNBC today!

    Let’s see, be the biggest brainwashed shill in investing history, get featured on TV!

    We are truly living in a bizarro world :(

    - Prof

  91. kustomz

    This is setting up to be a real rally, if TXN gets over 29.80 we could finally see it up +1 today something i have not seen in TXN in a long time.

  92. Don

    Oh boys….looks like we’re green…..

  93. tom2oc

    Phil, that’s it, I saw DJI green! Triple cheeseburger in the mail please. And I prefer the WEN ones.

    And not to rub it in but do this: Take a one minute chart of OIH and overlay on it SP-500. You will notice that OIH bounced about 20 minutes before SP-500 did. I’m telling you this market IS and NEEDS oil to go higher.

    And even if I feel like the biggest broken record of all times after saying it for weeks here, watch those oil puts!! Friendly advice! G/L

  94. tom2oc

    Shane, Too funny! Thanks, looks delicious!

    Gee, folks, this site is shutting down soon and it was a real pleasure to chat with y’all and give my TA input for whatever it was worth but I just want to say this: this market turning green I saw it coming simply by following the GOAX rules. You’ve got them so up to you to use them or not but regardless what the PHDs down in Stockholm think of them, they WORK and kept me on the right side of the market intraday and daily for months and months.

    Cheers and all the best in your trading!

  95. kustomz

    Whens the last day for this bolg?
    TOM looks like SHLD has snatched that QUADROUPLE STEAKBURGER from the tips of your fingers

  96. The Jack of Hearts

    Tom, I was on your blog there looking for the GOAX rules but I ended up at a “page-not-found” ..? I am looking in the wrong place?

  97. sakiko

    Thanks, tom2oc (it was worth at least $3.5K in my executions, following you a couple of months).

  98. Mort

    Tom
    I hope that by Phil’s blog going private, we would not lose people like u & zman,….. I’m sure Phil would not let u guys go either

  99. Shane

    MRVL chart looks good.

  100. foo

    Prof,

    I feel your pain. That last up-surge hit my stop. I’m out. Now watch them fall. Best of luck to you!

  101. tom2oc

    Kustomz, look at the 10 minute chart and you’ll see that this run up came on very light volume and is 100% bogus. But might continue to move up and down like this until it breaks for that quadruple. Reason why I’m not touching before it goes below my line. But as always, a TA is good until there is a TA character change and that can be coming the next minute, the next day or the next year. Reason why it’s foolish to try to predict the future. Only thing to do is to watch the present and get in the trend when it starts and stay in until it bends.

    Take AQNT for example, I had on my watchlist of stocks to watch for shorting. I spotted a big green volume bar earlier in the morning and I immediately moved it to the long watchlist and got long on a pullback. Now rocking. No idea why it happened and I dun care but I’m riding it long side anyway and now protecting profit already. This is TA trading and I luv it!

  102. Shane

    Mort,
    Agreed, I think many will not stay long unless Tom,Zman are on the new private site.

  103. tom2oc

    Mort, I’m not planning to sign up to Phil’s site. Not that I don’t value his opinions and the good posters here but just that FA is not my trading style and I have the habit of being easily influenced by people I respect and this is when I get into trouble.

  104. Daniel

    Now here’s something worth mentioning.
    Louis Navellier, El Toro Permanente, has just sent out a letter to his subscribers with the following opening: “This could get ugly, my dear friend … Blue Chip darlings are barelling toward a massive crack-up.”
    He says it’ll happen in the next few weeks and that the suckers are being brought in while the institutions sell.
    This guy has been so up on the markets all year.
    Comments?

  105. tom2oc

    Daniel, well this Navellier is in line with what TA tells me will happen anytime from now to end of the June next year. I go day by day and every night I verify some special charts I have to monitor the situation and be ready before the big one happens. It’s coming so got to watch closely. Gut feel is that it might be triggered by either a) dollar collapse (and what’s happening now is putting me on high alert b) AAPL crashing on Jobs problems c) oil crashing. But Mr. Market is good to come with suprizes so it might be something we don’t even see in the radars now. But there will be something, the world markets go into major financial crisis every 4-5 years and the last one was in 2002 with Enron/Worldcom. No worries, it will find an excuse.

  106. kustomz

    TOM on technicals do you prefer GS to SHLD?

  107. BillBigD

    He is pitching his small cap newsletter. His comments on his Bluechipgrowth is everything is rosey.

  108. kustomz

    TOM on technicals do you prefer GS to SHLD?

    All this talk of cheeseburgers has me salivating!

  109. tom2oc

    Kustomz, both ugly but SHLD is getting ready to go the hell prom soon contrary to the other one. SHLD in a bear flag over 50MA. When and if that 167.50 line fails, it ain’t going to be pretty. But could go both ways as always…

  110. Mitch McDad

    Just found your blog and I love it. Putting you on my blogrool. Nice job.

  111. Prof

    foo,

    Since you’re stopped out, I may be the last HB short standing.

    3/5th of my July-covered profits are now kaput on paper.

    My initial plan was to double-down if this kind of rally occurred.
    But right now I am lacking that conviction.

    The only bright side is the HB’s I’m tracking are bumping up against key resistance levels. With any luck, potentially slow retail/car sales and poor
    TOL earnings report in the next few days, may cause another sell-off.

    I may be closing out my positions for the year should that happen.

    ==========================================

    Phil,

    Question about the falling dollar: Can it benefit the homeowner that has a lot of equity?

    e.g. 600k value on home, 300k mortgage debt. Lower dollar means it takes more dollars to buy hard assets like houses. Meanwhile, debt amount is fixed and easier to pay off with more dollars floating around.

    Obviously, this scenario jeopardizes my whole outlook on the housing sector …

    - Prof

  112. kustomz

    Whats happens to the dollar if the YUAN is to trade on the open market? Could this be a possibility as to the current weakness to the dollar?

    Trying to keep from buying GS but the weakness is tempting ahead of earnings.

  113. zmann

    3 new countries want to join Opec in 3 days. Next will be Norway, they’re just about the right size. More likely Mexico. Hell, I’ve got a piece of an oilfield in Oklahoma, sign me up too!

    The trend is so distrubing I’m not adding to current puts or any new short ones until oil breaks through $65. If that happens Dec 14 is unlikely to see any Opec action and the stocks will pull back,

    In the meantime I’m still liking longs in SWN, KWK, APC, and CHK for short trades on high gas prices and CRR because drilling isn’t slowing yet and everybody needs designer sand for there wellbores.

  114. BAE

    Tom2oc,
    You are very good at TA.
    1. Why don’t you keep your blog ongoing. Mostly for yourself.
    2. Offer TA on you blog for small fee per stock. Have a maximum you will do per trading day. If more than your max, then do those after market closes and post later.
    3. Allow comments from readers, so that we can see what others are doing and get their input.

    I subscribe to other services, as I am sure that many others here do as well. Sometimes, I get a rec, or read something , but want some TA on a particular stock, or further confirmation before buying. This is where your TA comes in useful, and yes, I would pay you for it!

    Email me at btravelling3@yahoo.com. I’d be interested in discussing further with you.

  115. Mort

    Shane
    well as far as I am concerned I plan to stay with Phil’s blog as long as possible, but what I meant was that if I were in Phil’s shoes I would have invited people like Tom, Zman, and … to sign up as guests; so we can all benefit from their sporadic inputs as well.

  116. i2trade

    Mort,
    Phil might already be doing that ;)

  117. Shane

    TXN here come 29.80…now what?

  118. i2trade

    Closing green would be perfect for the market to start its leg up.

    Catching top is always bad, saying to myself! Never again.

  119. dan ellis

    Tom:

    Where are your goax? rules

    They don’t come up on your site?

    Thanks!

    Dan

    p.s.

    Do most put 2% of money into each trade?

    I would love to hear how others handle the money management side of things.

    Cause, I’m still getting crushed over heea…

  120. kustomz

    Shane, i put my money where my mouth is i bought more at 28.73. I like the chart on TXN. We could be looking at TXN 30+.. I always wait for confirmation before buying more…and i got the confirmation. Theres money on the sidelines waiting for the same signals.

  121. Shane

    Kustomz,
    thx.I got it.

  122. Alex1

    Tom2oc,

    I understand what you said about being influenced by FA and perhaps you could even do better by just concentrating on TA. However, please consider that money isn’t eveything. I’d guess it’s more fun for you to trade when you’re part of a community and having fun on the job is, imho, just as important as money. Anyway, I wish you luck with whatever you choose.

  123. Shane

    Kus,
    TXN will get more on any pullback.

  124. Gary

    does anyone on the blog have any thoughts about NMX as a long term play?

  125. Shane

    GM..Kirk is out GM share completely.

  126. thrunner

    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:7EL1Ty25PDAJ:tom2oc.blogspot.com/2006/10/tom2ocs-goax-rules.html+tom2ocs-goax-rules.html&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

    Here is a recap of the basic GOAX rules:

    —————————————-

    Rule 1. GOOG AAPL BKX all trending (up or down more than 0.35%) in synch in the same direction and with increasing/decreasing percentages not too distant from each others: Expect a broad trending market from here.

    Rule 2. GOOG AAPL trending up by more than +0.35% and BKX relatively weaker (less than half of the increase of GOOG/AAPL, flat or negative): don’t expect much from any tech rally from here and chances are it will reverse given enough time.

    Rule 3. GOOG AAPL both trending down by more than 0.35% and BKX relatively stronger (less than half of the decrease of GOOG/AAPL, flat or positive): market will find bottom not too far below current level before possibly bouncing given enough time.

    Rule 4. GOOG and AAPL mixed and generally trending in opposite direction: Expect a trading range mixed market with up and down bounces on support and resistance. If in addition BKX is flat (within a variance of 0.35%), expect a flat market from here.

    Note: If GOOG AAPL and BKX are all flat (within of variance of 0.35%) the market is considered pausing and the latest GOAX rating remains in effect until the next GOAX character change.

    ——————————————-

  127. MJ

    Can XOM get to 80 before the Dec options expiration

  128. Slackin

    And GM divested GMAC. Looks bleak.

  129. The Jack of Hearts

    If you’re looking for Tom’s GOAX rules, I just found them on the google cache searching for “goax rules”

  130. D

    MJ Says – That depends on if I short it again or not. If I short anywhere over 75, 80 is a sure bet!

  131. Shane

    The Jack,
    Don’t forget Tom2oc’s copy right…LOL

  132. mark_l

    Tom … is AQNT still a buy .. thx … Mark

  133. MJ

    D ….

    Thats only for few minutes at the most to scare the small retail investors. Just follow the trend (with tight stops), logic does not work, only trend seems to be the winner.

  134. Chuck

    Winners and Losers and the Need to Believe

    Most option trades are losers. Very few option traders are winners in the long run. I have been a consistent loser during the time I have engaged in option trading (five years). Conversely, I have been successful in beating the market in managing my son’s retirement plan and my own stock investments over a much longer time.

    I don’t know if Phil is a long term winner or loser. My impression is that he is very smart, and many of the readers of this blog are looking to follow his trades. The rush of playing a short term winner is gratifying and addicting. Following a winning trader on a blogsite is like playing the Masters with Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson without anyone watching your errant shots. No one came to watch you at either venue

    Trading systems generally don’t work very long. Newsletter writers are better at selling newsletters than making money investing. So are option trading services. My best run of trades was going contra to the recommendations of a well known option advisory service--65% winners. If investing were a matter of distilling a nice neat algorithm and projecting it ahead, we could buy our investments and enjoy the ride. However, volatility has always folded the weaker hands in both investing and poker.

    I intend to subscribe to Phil’s service and track my record. Perhaps I will do better than on my own, but then its only money.

  135. Pike Bishop

    Gary
    Prudential gives an “underweight” rating for NMX

  136. kustomz

    Hey TOM i was just checking out your blog, first time!
    I see its pretty up to date i thought your site was down?
    I’m going to spend some time later reading your logs so far looks very interesting.

    I how many stocks are you following that are in their cooking modes?

  137. Just shiv

    How come I always end up with DUDs?

    The one time I bought xom it went down

    The time I bought MA it went down, when I got rid of my position it is up today

    Invested in safe “AAPL” but it refuses to budge after I invested

    Same happened with CME, it did not move much I only lost the time value on it.

    Is my fate only bad or others also like me?

  138. JD

    Chuck,
    I am totally agreed with you, Phil FA is so great but to make money out of his FA is not so great,I don’t think his record is good either, I followed him for quite sometimes, he was so wrong on oil put and may other GRMN,CAT….

  139. tom2oc

    Mark, got out of AQNT at 24.05. Daily has not turned bullish yet to stay overninght.

  140. MJ

    Just shiv, patience is all that is needed. AAPL will take off soon. AAPL is the most loved stock in wall street.

  141. tom2oc

    Holy cow! Lots of ugly of retailers out there. JWN AEOS SHLD etc. Maybe the best is to short RTH and just forget it. And tons of nice Homebuilders setting up nicely too. CTX is an example. I reviewed the homebuilders chart last night and couldn’t believe how they all looked ready to explode up. Need to get into that sector on the first pullback.

  142. tom2oc

    Had to short AEOS. Wonder how this bull market can keep going up if the consumers keep their wallets in their pockets. Be careful with this market, something smells bad. Might be end of month window dressing.

  143. D

    I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil.
    I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil.
    I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil.
    I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil.
    I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil. I will not short oil.

  144. John, the Other One

    LOL. XOM gets bad news, so naturally, it frigging SOARS.

  145. R

    Hi Phil,

    Picked up some DIA Jan 121 puts near the close for 1.10 and hoping to catch a downdraft going into the weekend. What do you think?

    R

  146. dan ellis

    please provide the goax rules link someone

    thanks!

    crushed option trader

  147. Bob Spawn

    Has anyone ever found anything ?????
    Najarian Trester Realmoney Bigtrends etc????

    That has somewhat consitently made them money

    I’ve been doing options for 11 years of 11 straight years of losses.

    I still have dreams of 1% a week
    thats .20 on a $20 stock isn’t it?

    Maybe I’m doing this wrong?

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks!

  148. John, the Other One

    Headline on CNN: ” Americans drive less for first time in 25 years”

    No doubt this means a 5 point gain for XOM tomorrow.

  149. Shane

    Dan,
    GOAX rule: you need to ask Tom2oc the Goax’s author and future Nobel Prize winner.

  150. ku4a

    I don’t know about “RealMoney” but I subscribed to thestreet.com options advisory for one year. Lost big bucks.

  151. Dan Ellis

    Tom2oc:

    Where are those GOAX rules please
    I would email if I could find the email

    Thx

  152. TOMTHETRADER

    Last day of the month and with retail sales below we will transition into semi’s banks etc…consumer rally may be over this is the scary part of the BULL Market …economy teetering on recession …some inflation from previous run and now need interest rate cuts to keep the Bull going …interest rates are doing there part for now but beware if there is a break in BONDS and mostly everyone has been a bond bull.
    Optimism got way to high and we needed and need scares but hopefully can grind higher again after that unrealistic run ..just 2-5 % slowly will make me happy …can’t become a total BEAR until there is 0 chance of an interest rate cut. If we do see a better chance of a cut the Bull will continue and maybe accelerate but not with these optimistic conditions …need some really scary days…Vix popped on Monday but is now back down ..needed back to back down 130 days …now we will have to go back down again and you know how much fun that is !!!
    Hedging again with QID and DOG but long NSM , ALL and XLK

    Good luck. Tom …thanks for the recommendation of X got some dec calls yesterday

    TTT

  153. Chuck

    Rule 1. GOOG AAPL BKX all trending (up or down more than 0.35%) in synch in the same direction and with increasing/decreasing percentages not too distant from each others: Expect a broad trending market from here.

    Rule 2. GOOG AAPL trending up by more than +0.35% and BKX relatively weaker (less than half of the increase of GOOG/AAPL, flat or negative): don’t expect much from any tech rally from here and chances are it will reverse given enough time.

    Rule 3. GOOG AAPL both trending down by more than 0.35% and BKX relatively stronger (less than half of the decrease of GOOG/AAPL, flat or positive): market will find bottom not too far below current level before possibly bouncing given enough time.

    Rule 4. GOOG and AAPL mixed and generally trending in opposite direction: Expect a trading range mixed market with up and down bounces on support and resistance. If in addition BKX is flat (within a variance of 0.35%), expect a flat market from here.

    Note: If GOOG AAPL and BKX are all flat (within of variance of 0.35%) the market is considered pausing and the latest GOAX rating remains in effect until the next GOAX character change.

  154. D

    Thanx Chuck.

  155. bullnotbear

    Shite what happened to my post!!

  156. bullnotbear

    One thing to keep in mind with the goax rules is the % up or down is measured from different starting pts and you need to track these (I use an excel spreadsheet already set up so I just need to input current values). For example, the .35 increase can occur in all three indicators in a 1pm-2pm evaluation but will show a decrease overall for the day. By taking these snapshots throughout the trading day you could be ahead of the game in playing market moves.

  157. D

    Have I got a deal for you! Now ya gotta follow me on this.

    I will sell you a specific stock pick each day to make a option play on. The play will work like this. If I say I am buying puts on xyz at a point in time, you in turn buy calls. If I say I am buying calls, you buy puts – are you with me here?

    Now the beauty here is that if I am right, meaning I make money and you lose money, I will give you your money back! You can’t go wrong! And I can lose my money slower playing off of your money.

    This offer is limited, so hurry before rush!!!!!!!!!!!

  158. Valorsoul

    This has been a bad year for me, down 13% of my net worth… today was the worst. I sold AAPL at it’s low and shorted it… then covered at its high… and by high and low I mean around 3 cents of the highs and lows. I don’t know of anyone that can do any worse than that.

    When I saw the DOW go under 12200… I dumped AAPL and shorted and lo and behold it reversed direction completely…

    I’d have to say I get entertainment value from following these nice discussions and great posts but I’ve been losing even more money now.

  159. Valorsoul

    I can finally understand why all those traders were jumping out of the towers a few years ago. Good thing I have this day job or I’d be joining them at this rate… shortly…

  160. Jack Fisher

    Has anyone ; even his excellence, been profitable over the last 5 years
    consistently?

    Please let me know what helped the most?

    Anyone tried Dorsey Wright point and figure approach?

    Thanks!

    Jack

  161. D

    Valorsoul,

    Being serious, don’t play with money you can’t afford to lose. Even more so very short term trades. This kinda thing can ruin your life if your banking the farm on it.

    I completely
    got wiped out during the dotcom era. I put some play money in a few years ago and play off of it now. Sometimes up, sometimes down.

  162. Jamie

    Regarding critism of Phil’s recommendations by various. YOU NEED to read his rules, that should be rule #1,2and 3, and practice w/o money. You are losing this week, but don’t pay attention that Phil is recommending CASH this week and playing a little with oil profits.
    His blogs in comments are quick and to the point and critical to understand and follow, if you check in only infrequently you are going to get into trouble.

  163. John, the Other One

    I made a profit on each of my last 7 COMPLETED trades, ranging from 1% to 27%; all were Phil’s picks with a special kudos to Cramer for pumping COF. I’ve got 5 positions languishing this week, plus two sh***ty XOM short positions. Ya just gotta wait sometimes. Look at each of your positions in a chart with MACD, Money Flow, RSI, 10 dma, 20 dma, and 50 dma. If you see that your positions are about to move your way but are just pissing you off at the moment, just relax and wait.

  164. dannylee1

    Lots of interesting posts and I’ve enjoyed reading them. The ONLY way that I have ever found to consistently make money in options is with credit spreads, and the best at that is Mike Parnos at Option investor.com. He is the Couch Potato Trader. It’s very boring investing, but if you do it correctly, you will make money consistently. That’s the main thing that I do ‘ although I enjoy Phil’s take on things and once in awhile I’ll even take his advice.
    By the by, I was a Commodities Broker for several years and am very familiar with the shenanigans at the NYMEX. The only thing I would say is this: I would NEVER short Oil in this environment.—- All the best.

  165. Prof

    Valorsoul,

    It takes a big man to admit those kinds of losses and poor trades.

    It seems you are too reliant on current news, and don’t do enough of your own DD via FA and TA.

    I feel your pain – had I went long on HB’s when I covered back in July, I’d be having an absolutely unbelievable year. HB’s have rallied these past few months, even as future earnings estimates have been cut in half.

    My point is, and is relevant to you, that you MUST learn from your mistakes. I have been over-committed to shorting HB’s based on FA, but should have been paying attention to the technicals also.

    e.g. I lost my a$$ shorting GOOG from 340 to 450, but due to this LL I covered an LVS short for a small loss around 50, before it went all the way to 95!!!

    Good Luck.
    - Prof

  166. Arindam

    I agree with the bull put credit spread concept (sell out of the money puts and buy one strike lower). The position is hedged so the movement is slow but the declining time value works for you. It’s not as exciting as a naked call or naked put position but you can consistently make money even if you’re slightly wrong about the direction of the stock. If you’re right about the direction, it’s a no brainer of course.

    Same goes with a bull call debit spread, of course.

  167. Batesum

    after reading all of todays comments I believe that not that everyone should be investing in options. You need to make sure that this is for you if you subscribe to Phil’s service. Some of the comments feel foreign to me under the circumstances…guide yourself accordingly, we love you but we are going to miss you……..
    bate

  168. FilmFlam

    I have spent most of the last 5 years trading options in an exercise to see how long I could get my capital to last before I frittered it all away. Only in the last year have I truly understood what it takes to make money in options. I believe there are only two ways for us true amateurs to win.

    1) You are a great option trader. Not a good option trader. A GREAT option trader. And just because you are a great stock trader, doesn’t make you a great option trader. They are a different beast entirely. But, these people are probably less than 1% of us. So, screw them and their natural ability. The rest of us have to go with our strengths. John Stockton played how many years in the NBA? Anything can be done.

    2) YOU HAVE PATIENCE AND INSIGHT. I have only recently turned immensely positive on my account. My option portfolio, which is sizable compared to my liquid net worth, is up 400% this year. And for only three reasons. AAPL, T, and GOOG. I called the AAPL bottom in March 2003, and had little to show for it until this year. I had consistently closed my option positions right when AAPL had started its 2-3 month climax runs. TWICE. So, I developed my own strategies. I buy options at staggered expirations and sell a few months before hand. That works for me. When it pulled back to 60 this year, I started grabbing it, when it hit 52, I put it all into Jan-08′s because you just don’t mess with the best consumer design, manufacturing, and marketing company the world has seen since the Model-T rolled off the line. Especially in an options trade. You will notice that their rallies end on or near expirations, consolidate and continue up. Or vice-versa on their downtrends.

    I firmly believe that the only way for small fish who are not going to daytrade and protect profits and open and close positions many times a week is to only buy into a few stocks. And give yourself some leeway for being too early. And most importantly, only go with the grain. STOP SHORTING AAPL. Seriously! Stop trying to get cute with your timing. If a stock that you believe in is in a bulltrend, don’t short it. And vice versa. You cannot handle (financially or psychologically) the loss. I can tell you first hand how getting wiped out on an AAPL short on a breakout feels. Like shit.

    Find a stock you believe in, roll in and out on a weekly basis, not a daily or hourly. Take profits when trends are broken, which is why I closed my Jan calls when AAPL hit $93 on Black Friday. When you get handed a 100% move in 4 days when everyone is on vacation, protect it, don’t try to parlay and go short. We are not that good, that is why we are reading this. When it pulled back to 90, buy some back, and pray that it goes to $87, then bet the farm. That is how we compete. DO NOT DIVERSIFY!!! It will force you into “cute” trades. Trades where you think you see something in a stock you can’t remember why you are even looking at it.

    I happened to have similar results with T and GOOG. GOOG, I just watched and watched until it was pushing up against its downtrend line so hard that it had to pop, luckily it did. T I held (foolishly) from a very temporary profit to a 70% loss to a 400% gain over 18 months. Should I have protected my capital, absolutely, but should I stop watching for a better entry point (and greater profit percentage?) Hell no. All of my gains this year are due to those three stocks. Everything else I tried just reduced my taxes.

    I hope this helps all you like Just Shiv who have been complaining about your trades. Make fewer trades, understand your stocks better, and pray to God you are sitting in front of the computer when AAPL gaps down 5% for any reason in the world. Until they determine that iPods are the biggest cause of cancer, autism, or global warming, this thing is going to the moon. And anytime it goes on sale, just say thank you and grab some near-term out of the money calls with money you DO NOT NEED. And giggle when it doubles in a week. Even if you only parlay that a few times a year, you will make out big.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I own every frickin’ share of AAPL that I can beg, borrow, or steal. I will sell 10% 10 minutes before Jobs takes the stage at Macworld, and every 10 minutes after. This thing is going to $110 before then, and 150 by June.

  169. FilmFlam

    PS – It helps finally being in a bull market. Unfortunately for most, they are too tired now and used to having to make money on both ends. Don’t do that. Be a bull in a raging bull market. You have until spring. Make it count.

  170. John, the Other One

    CNN:

    “Homeland Security warns al Qaeda plans to attack and destroy databases of U.S. stock market and banking Web sites, Reuters reports.”

    Guess maybe my short positions will be profitable tomorrow after all. Er, either that or destroyed.

  171. sakiko

    No, option trading isn’t for people who can’t handle or manage the risk. Your broker has a basic scheme for assessing the trading level on your account (this from Options Express):

    Trading Level

    Your trading level has been determined based on your trading experience, income level, age and overall knowledge of options. The list below outlines the various trades permitted at each trading level.

    -1 Trading Disabled
    0 Buy Stocks/Bonds/ Mutual Funds
    1 Covered Calls / Sell Stock Short
    2 Buy Calls and Puts / Cash Secured Put Writing
    3 Debit Spreads (purchase a spread)
    4 Credit Spreads / Equity Put Writing (sell a spread)
    5 Naked Equity Call Writing / Naked Index Put & Call Option Writing

    so it’s obvious the risk is there !

    I agree that the spreads are pretty good at generating income over time, but a lot of readers here sound like they’re looking for a home run every other day. InvestorsObserver.com has a $50/month service that points out pretty good trades almost every day, that slowly grind out a profit over a few weeks of holding time, along with targets and stops. I’ve made money – I emphasize slowly – and they’ve got a good track record. I got messed up a couple of time in two years, but not that much of a problem. As I said, you need to manage the trade and have some discipline. Read “The Disciplined Trader” about 4 times… I need to read it again LOL.

  172. D

    FilmFlam,

    Thanx, good reading.

  173. D

    I am quite stunned that no one is jumping on me trading offer?

  174. JB

    Survey- age and location

    myself – 28 vancouver bc

  175. D

    44 – North Carolina – USA

  176. i2_trade

    Ok, let me jump the bandwagon…

    Dont invest in options if you are not following options trading for atleast 18-24 months. Yep, it takes that long to figure out how things operate. dont just jump the gun if you are a stock trader.

    Been trading options for 2 years losing more than winning. Ok. I admit I am a bad trader. So.. there it goes. When you win in small bets dont bet big thinking its a home run, you’ll infact have to run from your home!!

    Is this a ” losers speakout week ” or what?

    Hey.. its all in the education. Keep money in play and dont go bankrupt!

    Also, YOU LIVE ONLY ONCE! DONT BURN OUT, NOT WORTH IT.

  177. Pike Bishop

    49, Caribbean

  178. ed

    My names Ed and I’m an optionaholic…

  179. phil

    Wow, good conversations.

    I am truly concerned about what seems to be a lot of people making way too serious trades on options and I will be addressing that extensively in the new site.

    I screwed up as much as anyone when I started and I figured the money management thing before I got the accuracy down.

    Making money on options (or stocks really) is all about being in the right place at the right time and you always have to expect to lose 20% on 5 trades for every one you make a double. The biggest trick is to limit those losses TO 20% so that the double makes it all back – in between those, we aim to do a little better than 50/50.

    You can follow my trades back 6 months on: http://seekingalpha.com/by/author/philip-davis

    and for over a year at: http://philstocks.blogspot.com/

    to get a feel for a real trading period, any monthly snapshot is pointless. I strongly suggest new readers at least browse a month or two’s worth of weekly wrap-ups.

    We had a month where we hit 200% trades over and over on oil, both up and down but the trick is to pace yourself – keep being in the right place and take advantage of the right time. You can’t force either one!

    As to this whole options only thing, that’s another thing I need to correct. 80% of your stock portfolio should be in safe steady plays and income producers, not short-term options.

    Also, I would think it would go without saying that if I pick a call for more than 30 days that it’s pretty obvious I like the straight stock – it has never even occurred to me to mention this but I can’t belive how many people say I never pick stocks – they are all stocks…

    I am going to go back to 11/11′s weekend update and see how my picks worked out as straight stocks in this very choppy end of month (and I’m not going back to the original date, just the open positions as stocks from that day).

    Let’s say you didn’t play options, didn’t day trade and just let picks ride:

    APC (yes, it was a call!) $47.25 – $49.36
    AXP $58.86 – $58.72
    BRY I’m not going to count because I said get out of the put and it did go up
    BXP short $105.83 – $117.05 (not good!)
    DIA $121.11 – $122.28
    GRMN $46.28 – $50.89
    JOYG $40.93 – $43.90
    LLY $54.14 – $53.59 (I said get out)
    MRK Short $43.12 – $44.15 (oops)
    OLED $6.19 – $5.95
    PRGO $16.91 – $16.78
    QQQQ $43.03 – $44.04
    QSFT $15.55 – $14.30 (as I said then, always sell into the excitement)
    SIRI $4.13 – $4.26
    TOT Short $71.82 – $71.46
    YHOO $27.39 – $27.01

    Not so bad is it?

    I would shoot myself if I traded like that but it’s not a badly diversified bunch of choices if you ignore the options and just take the stocks.

    I’m thinking of going with a multi-portfolio approach for all kinds of traders but it’s going to be a lot of work so don’t expect it at first, it will take us a while to get the site where I want it to be but I do have a dream!

  180. Gary

    Great insights and advice from some very knowledgeable investors, for me I got thrashed on the oil puts and oil shorts as such I finally surrendered and drank the kool-aid today, I’m all in on VLO! As Slim Pickens would say…. yeee haaa!

  181. bullnotbear

    47 Florida and anxious to learn (besides from my own mistakes) !!

  182. ramana

    Surely Phil, in your site, you must have a Oil Addicts Treatment Center, right ?

    LOL :-)

    I love this blog….my day begins and ends with this blog

    Thanks, Phil and look forward to your new site

  183. FilmFlam

    32, Los Angeles

  184. ramana

    Hi Bullnotbear…

    Question on GOAX rules…you mentioned the % up or down is measured from different starting points….what determines these starting points ?

    Thanks

  185. ramana

    Another question… have any of you performed Monte Carlo simulations ?

  186. D

    Monte Carlo simulations ?

  187. ramana

    Yes D…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_methods_in_finance

    just curious

  188. sakiko

    Welcome Ed ! LOL

    48, South Pasadena, California – but house-sitting in Reno for another two months.

    Traded stocks for 4 years and options for 3 years. Unlike Phil’s model trader, I’m 40% slow option spreads, 30% cash, the rest I’m a cautious cowboy. Your mileage may vary.

  189. bullnotbear

    Ramana,

    I use a 1 hour period for calculating GOAX movements. I believe Tom uses similar to confirm GOAX predictive results, allocating some time after calculating results to help assure results weren’t just an anomaly. Is that correct Tom?

    At any rate, the ending values of the GOAX components in my first calculation become the beginning values for my second calculation and so on. I also look at the cumulative day movement of the three to give me additional comfort with the calculated results. Doing the calculation more often doesnt seem to be more conclusive and takes more time, but that is soley my theory. ( so since being a prior auditor, must qualify any conclusions as to their correctness or verifiability, lol)

  190. Jim R.

    Those who do not understand the reasoning behind the relatively short-term option plays and the risks involved and who have to rely solely on the advices, great as they are, of the gurus of this board, without fully being able to make their own analysis AND follow Phil’s trading rules have the odds stacked against them if they choose trade.

    You can trade options in a different manner as some have described here. One additional way to those suggested is to first find stocks with good prospects, there are plenty out there, and buy longer term call options, three months out or longer, that are in the money, with a price and expirations that have a favourable delta value and while not as exciting as Phil’s, expect to hold them for up to about three months and exit positions no later than a month prior to option expiration. It works.

    Happy trading everyone. Jim R.

  191. tom2oc

    Bullnotbear, what you’re doing is very similar to what I’ve been doing before I created the GOAX-V indicator which is a leading indicator of the GOAX rules. I now have a streaming indicator plotted on a special chart template and I just have to look at it and see immediately when there is a GOAX character change under way. This is how I got a signal just after lunch that the market was about to reverse green and posted it here. Note that a GOAX-V1L signal is not a GOAX rule 1 signal but it’s telling that the market is trending in one direction and given enough time, might eventually turn into a rule 1. I get about 2 or 3 V1 signals during a day while I get a rule 1 signal only once in 5 to 10 days. Monday was a rule 1 short day very early in the day and this is when only puts should be held.

    I’ve been using this leading indicator since I created it on 10/17 and tested it live for a week on the blog with 100% success (see blog on that date for some discussion on it). And that success rate stayed the same ever since. GOAX-V has become my most useful tool in my trading chest. It’s like having a machine that reads the future as a partner. Contrary to GOAX-R, I definitely can’t say it’s a simple system though. It takes into account many technical variables and adjust for bogus runs too. For example, if AAPL turns after an intraday drop and starts trending up in a normal bear flag fashion on low volume (in other words, a bogus run), GOAX-V does not consider it as trend change and deem that it continues to trend down.

    This year I sent the GOAX rules as my application for the Nobel prize and the PHDs said it was too simple to have a chance even if it works like clockwork. Next year I’m going with the GOAX-V rules and no doubt the PHDs will like them only because it’s more complex. :)

  192. i2_trade

    Tom,
    Do you have plans of opening comments in your site anytime?

    Thanks.

  193. Nasir

    Nice post I really enjoyed it.

  194. tom2oc

    I2_2trade: nope, heck I was not planning to do so on the private blog, sure not going to do it on the open blog now. Priority number number one is trading so I got to keep the distractions out as much as I can. Sorry.

    Bullnotbear: I reviewed the GOAX-V historical signals and found that on any given day I might get from 0 to 3 GOAX-V1 signals and the average is 1.4 per day. I was under the impression they were more frequent as per above reply to you but this is only because the market has been reversing and churning more in the recent days and it distorted my thinking. Like yesterday I only got one signal. Tentative pre-signal V1L signal at 12:21 and confirmation received at 12:56. All I had to do was to dump the puts and keep the calls at that time and just wait for the reversal like I’ve been doing for weeks while managing BlogX. I posted it in layman’s terms at 13:08 above. There was another tentative pre-signal 30 minutes or so before the close but I don’t pay much attention to those signals so late in the game. They’re just funds buying/selling and most of the time they reverse out just before the close.

  195. chuck

    You can learn more about Monte Carlo on our website.
    Black-Scholes Option pricing models use MC analysis.
    Options Express has a theoretical option pricer on its website, and the theoretical price of any traded option is derived by using the implied volatility. Implied volatility is based on the statistical variation in prices over time. Until present generation computers, it was difficult to do the differential equations to make such analysis practical.

    Like any analysis using math, statistics, and financial assumptions, be careful out there. GIGO applies.

    We use MC simulations in helping clients determine insurance needs and retirement income needs. MC shows volatility inherent in any financial product, and why most folks don’t have enough money to fulfill their goals

    Bid/ask spreads make it awfully difficult to make money on options. Personal risk tolerance adds another layer, since most option players don’t have the right psychological makeup to do the trades. That can be acquired, however by study and practice.

  196. Valorsoul

    Hi guys

    I’d like to thank you D and Prof for your comments. It is appreciated.

    Very interesting post FlimFlam. I liked it alot, wish Phil would comment on whether he agreed or not.

    The worst part of my trades is that every single time (not kidding EVERY) the day after it goes the way I expect it. Probability speaking, I don’t know why I always cover at the worst time. NYMX the day before the plunge, AAPL right before today’s plunge.

    The worst part is I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong. Everything I’ve been researching about the market seems to me that a correction is due end of December or early January so I’m very hesitant to have anything but cash. That’s why I’m day-trading right now, which is bad. I never make money, just keep losing. I am afraid to close out positions and hate paying the 10.75% margin on shorts at end of the day… I guess I need to just hold 1 more day than I want and I’d be up 20%+ this year instead of negative 13%

  197. phil

    Val, Flim is right but I bet a large part of your problem is how you manage your money rather than what trades you pick.

    Overcomitting is one of the biggest mistakes options traders make and you should check out the section on “My Trading Policies” for a general idea of how I enter a trade.

    One of the main reasons I want to cut down the group on the pro site is to make sure I have more time for this sort of thing as the best picks in the world won’t save you if you treat this like a roulette wheel.

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