Anne Applebaum on the Trump revolution
Journalist Paul Wells speaks with historian and Atlantic writer Anne Applebaum to assess how Trump’s re-election is reshaping U.S. institutions, alliances, and the war in Ukraine. They cover election integrity and gerrymandering fights, surprising court dynamics, allegations of sweeping kleptocracy, and the rollback of U.S. soft-power tools. Applebaum argues that today’s autocracies collaborate across money, propaganda, and military lines—and that with Washington stepping back, Europe, Canada, and other partners must deepen ties and keep supporting Ukraine while pro-democracy networks work around the White House if necessary.
On Ukraine, Applebaum has some critical words for Trump, stressing that his meetings with Vladimir Putin were little more than public-relations theater that legitimized the Russian leader without achieving progress toward peace. She underscores that Trump seems blind to the fact that Putin uses him for his own ends, and that by pulling back U.S. sanctions, aid, and military pressure, the administration has emboldened Moscow. The result is a longer and more brutal war for Ukraine—and a weakened United States that looks less reliable to its allies.
Timeline
0:00 – Guest intro, book update, and stakes of the conversation
1:16 – Why this term feels “different in kind” from Trump’s first administration
2:53 – Will the midterms be free and fair? Risks despite decentralized elections
3:51 – Texas gerrymander at Trump’s behest; unprecedented federal-level interference claim
5:12 – Legal avenues to reshape outcomes; warning against complacency
6:35 – Surprising court wins for Trump; possible reasons discussed
7:40 – “Autocracy, Inc.” thesis: how modern dictatorships coordinate across finance, propaganda, and arms
11:13 – New preface: effects of Trump’s re-election; alleged kleptocracy and pay-to-play dynamics
15:01 – U.S. foreign-policy shifts: cuts to RFE/RL/VOA and USAID; global ripple effects
18:41 – Lasting damage to allied trust; why pro-democracy networks must act even without U.S. leadership
27:04 – Alaska/Washington “peace” meetings: why they produced no tangible progress
31:08 – No pressure on Russia = longer war; sanctions drift and weapons limits
36:08 – Europe’s rising support for Ukraine; Ukrainian drone strikes straining Russia
38:44 – Argument that more pressure could have changed the war’s trajectory
39:36 – What allies should do: Canada/EU/Indo-Pacific trade links that bypass the U.S.
41:58 – Wrap-up and sign-off
